In the midst of the hustle and bustle of the 2024 Insurance Leadership Forum, Leader's Edge held open mic hours in the magazine's podcast booth where conference guests could sit down and share thoughts on any topic.
First to join in conversation was Kevin Davis, president of Kevin Davis Insurance Services, who shared how he uses his own podcast to help his business. Next, Leader’s Edge’s book reviewer Scott Naugle discussed the similarities between recommending a book and an insurance policy.
Read the Transcript
Disclaimer: Podcast transcriptions are computer generated, please excuse errors. For the most accurate version of the conversation, please refer to audio.
Kevin Davis: Insurance will look at a problem and say, okay, we can’t continue to raise rates. We got to figure out a way of solving these problems. And usually, it’s going to end up being behavior problems, something simple as putting a seatbelt on.
Scott Naugle: If you want expert advice, you want an insurance professional, an independent agent who knows you and is going to help you select the best coverage. Take that same conversation and apply it to both.
Zach Ewell: Welcome to the Leader’s Edge Podcast. I’m Zach Ewell, content producer here at Leader’s Edge. Last October, Leader’s Edge was on site at the Insurance Leadership Forum held in Colorado Springs. During the meeting held at the Broadmoor Hotel, hundreds of brokers and agents could be seen running to and from meetings. But right in the middle of the hotel lobby, Leader’s Edge conducted several high-profile interviews. However, we also held some open mic hours where anyone with a passion for risk could sit down with us and talk about what was on their mind, whether that be inflation, hurricanes, books, or pickleball. The following features two conversations from our open mic hours. Kevin, thank you so much for being here.
Kevin Davis: I love doing these kinds of situations. I like really kind of talking about ways that we can do things a little bit better. And that’s what this is all about.
Zach Ewell: So, you’re a podcaster for people that don’t know. What’s the name of your show?
Kevin Davis: Okay. It’s called Insight HOA Insights.
Zach Ewell: Oh, HOA Insights.
Kevin Davis: Okay. And again, it’s like three of us together. I take turn, I do it once a month and we have partners that do it once a month. And basically, it’s about this: I’m a specialist insurance specialist. Specializing community associations.
So the difference between what I do, most people do.
They are insurance specialists who give you the best property, the best liability, whatever. I don’t do that. I don’t even talk about insurance. When I talk to clients, I talk to them about what particularly bothers them right now.
And that is if you live in a community association, there’s something always going to bother you.
So I talk about what bothers you and then I say, that’s what I have an insurance product and protection.
Zach Ewell
You have the problem and here’s the solution, essentially. Okay. And for these community associations, where are they located? Is it, is it primarily on the coast? Florida?
Kevin Davis
Well, everywhere.
Zach Ewell
Everywhere?
Kevin Davis
We have about 40,000 community associations in the country. Most of them on the east coast.
So even though I’m in Los Angeles, we have condos New York City. You go to New York City and see Park Avenue, Fifth Avenue.
They are our bread and butter. And then you go to Miami, Fort Lauderdale, Naples, all that. We insure all those now.
Zach Ewell
Wow.
Kevin Davis
We only specialize in the liability part of it. We don’t do any property.
Zach Ewell
Okay, sure. Because that’s. Yeah, that makes total sense. Yeah. Property in those areas definitely is a wrench. There’s a wrench into things. So I guess I’d really like to know then, Kevin. So how, what was this journey like going from somebody who works insurance, even though you say, I’m going to solve the problem first and then I’m going to show you how it’s done. But how does somebody go from working insurance to then being interested in hosting their own podcast?
Kevin Davis
Well, okay, what happens is this when you become a specialist? I’m an insurance specialist. I am a community association specialist who happen to sell insurance.
So now how do I get my message across? Okay, and so we started with doing webinars about 15 years ago. About 20. By 2011. Yeah, 2012, we started doing webinars and we’re talking, we started preaching to the choir. And my choir happened to be insurance specialist. So I wanted to start talking to board members of community associations, managers of community associations, people who live in community associations.
To explain to them that, guess what, you have a problem right now. You live in a community association right now and right now you’re. You, you’re unhappy because there’s pickleball courts out there. Yeah, everybody loves to play pickleball, but guess what? Pickleball makes a lot of noise.
And at 2:00 in the afternoon, when you used to be at work, where you’re at now, you’re home trying to do your work and pickleball.
So the first thing you do is say, wait a minute, I never gave them authority to do that. So now here comes the drama starts and all of a sudden you end up with a lawsuit.
Zach Ewell
So, my job, pickleball lawsuit.
Kevin Davis
You have a pickleball because it makes too much noise.
Zach Ewell
Sure, and it noises them pickleball. And then you’re stuck in a pickle.
Kevin Davis
That’s the kind of problems we have in community associations. And my job is to recognize that. And it gives them some techniques to say, okay, what you have to do is first of all make sure you get the approval to put a pickleball.
And once you get the approval, you stand by your approval. So look, we all agreed to it. This is what we’re doing from now on. And that’s it.
Zach Ewell
This is an interesting question I’m going to ask you because again, this is your duality of being a podcast host, but also somebody who works insurance. What makes a good guest? What makes a good customer? And is there anything essentially that is overlap?
Kevin Davis
Oh, yes, There’s a lot of good questions because I have to pick somebody who can communicate effectively.
Which is nothing more important.
Zach Ewell
And this is the guest. The guest, yes. Communicating effectively.
Kevin Davis
If I normally I do it myself.
Okay. Because I’m the best communicator when it comes to talking about the issues that community associations face.
Now, once in a while, I will have somebody come in and talk about maybe how to reserve properly for your rooms and things like that.
Okay. But before I find somebody, I have to say, okay, I have to hear them and talk to them.
And go. Okay. They know everything about how a fund reserves or they cannot communicate it effectively without going into the weeds.
Biggest problem with podcasts are how do you make it informative and interesting at the same time?
Zach Ewell
Absolutely. Yeah.
Kevin Davis
And that’s all. I’m always trying to figure that thing out. How do you do that? I can do it because my job is to do one thing is communicate the issues impacting community associations.
And I have a small solution for it.
Zach Ewell
Huh?
Kevin Davis
So it’s easy for me now. Second question.
Is that how did I get here?
Zach Ewell
Yeah.
Kevin Davis
And this is the magic for me. Whenever I have a conversation, I talk to my wife first.
If my wife says, I don’t have no idea what you’re talking about. I’m not going to deep. If she says, I get it, but I don’t care, then I don’t talk.
Zach Ewell
So your wife is your consultant?
Kevin Davis
She is my consultant, because what happened, you realize, is that if I can’t convince my wife that what I say is interesting, then no basketball flagging is.
Zach Ewell
Yeah, that’s a good point. Yeah, I like that. That’s fun.
Kevin Davis
Because everybody, look, I know a lot about insurance.
I can go into the weeds. I could go and say, you know, section 1.2 of the policy says, you know, where. Are you aware of any fact circumstances make it rise to a claim?
As opposed to, do you know any claims pending? Now I just bored you, right? You careless. What I just said.
Zach Ewell
Well, I don’t know about me, but I think some people definitely did turn off when they were listening. Turn on your said section E. Exactly.
Kevin Davis
Should have said the word section E of 1.25. The policy people turned off the podcast, right?
I never talk about that. I just say I have a policy here that can solve the problem. Because when you’re sued because that unit owner who lives in unit E., okay? Doesn’t like the pickleball course because guess where you live at. You live in the total other side of the complex.
Pickleball. You could care less about it. They talking to you and they want to challenge you. Okay.
Zach Ewell
In terms of trends within that area of community associations, are there any that you’re kind of thinking of that are topical or you are. You just have in the back of your head as we move. You know, we’re in the currently the last quarter of this year, but we’re saying goodbye to 2024 and hello to 2025. Is there any topic areas that you are again, just thinking about going into next year that you think will be major players in the way we talk about risk.
Kevin Davis
A couple things that’s impacting insurance right now, okay is the cost.
Everybody is aware that the insurance has gotten so costly. Now what I do is say tell them why it’s going up. I talk about inflation. I talk about getting people to do it. The cost of material. And try to explain why the costs are going up.
Also kind of tell them that, you know, insurance is of supply demand. There having to be more demand right now than supply. And the reason why, because of disasters happening. Occurring now. That’s kind of a general thing. But what I would do specifically, more into you live in a community association and I see right now your costs have gone up. Okay. In terms of just, you know, people are home now. So electric, gas, the things that you usually use. There’s cost involved in it. So that’s the reason why insurance is going up. Just people are living. We’re living in a post-Covid world association. That means I see people more than I saw them before. And that’s what we end up doing?
We don’t get along. You know, we live in a 50:50 world. Just like in a condo 50:50 world.
Where half the group doesn’t like the other half are doing. No matter what I say I want to do. If I want to say I have a pickleball half people don’t want to have it. I say we’ll collect trash on Tuesday instead of Thursday. We don’t like half, they’re not gonna like it.
So we spend more time dealing with the things that people don’t like, they do like. And it’s just challenging times living in a community association since post Covid. Because before we came home at 5, 6 o’clock. And now at 5 or 6 o’clock, you know, we’re having dinner. But I’ve been home since 2 or 3.
Zach Ewell
In terms, you know, one thing I find fascinating, and I love that you touched upon, you know, the cost because that’s really on the top of a lot of brokers here and a lot of brokers around is just again, how much it costs now, like the overbearing increase of prices to get coverage. Now in this may, this is very complex, but I just want to know from your angle, in theory, because you know inflation is going down, you know inflation, I’m going to knock on wood that it’s going to continue to go on down. But as inflation continues to go on down, do you think that will reflect in policy coverage prices?
Kevin Davis
I tell you, this is interesting about inflation. Inflation goes down, but that just means that the price is not going up as much as it used to go up.
So yeah, inflation going down, that means instead of paying a dollar, instead of paying $1.10, a $15, now you paid a $5. Yeah, okay, but you said dollar is still there. Once you hit that number, it doesn’t go every verse.
However, the good news about insurance, it does, because with insurance what happens is you get more supply coming in. So once insurance make enough money. So right now property rates are through the roof and they still continue to go up.
Now they may not go up as much anymore, but guess what happens now? All of a sudden there’s more supply goes on coming in. Guess what? We think the pricing is pretty good right now. So you’re going to have more people coming back into the industry. Yeah, people start coming back into it, guess what happens then your rate starts going down. So it’s not inflation so much. It’s a matter of purely supply and demand. Right now you have a problem with you have more demand and supply. If the rates get a certain point, you got more supply and demand and then the rates start going back down.
And guess what? We won’t be talking about this in two years from now. We’re talking about other Things.
Zach Ewell
Yeah, I hope so.
Kevin Davis
Insurance will look at the problem and say, okay, we can’t continue to raise rates. We got to figure out way of solving these problems. And usually it’s going to end up being behavior problem. Something simple as putting a seat belt on. Is that. Well, you have a choice. Don’t wear seat belts. Or guess what, you’re going to pay a lot for insurance. Insurance. Okay, well, you get a traffic ticket, you go to traffic school, or guess what, you’re going to pay a lot for insurance.
Zach Ewell
It’s an incentive. Insurance is incentivized.
Kevin Davis
To do better.
Zach Ewell
Yeah, to do better.
Kevin Davis
To be smart about decisions you make.
Zach Ewell
Absolutely.
Kevin Davis
And that’s what’s going to happen on the. And look at all the things in Florida from the. Florida. From the hurricane stuff. Different windows, type of windows and all these different things down. Because insurance are saying, okay, we will insure you, but guess what? You wouldn’t have to do. You have to participate. That means you’ll do a better job.
—
Zach Ewell
Scott Naugle, thank you so much for being here.
Scott Naugle
Thank you, Zach, for having me.
Zach Ewell
Absolutely, absolutely. So, Scott, you have such an interesting career. Talk about different careers, I should say. You know, you worked insurance and then you also made the pivot to also owning and operating a bookstore. Is that. That’s correct.
Scott Naugle
Correct. And they were at parallel times.
Zach Ewell
They’re parallel at times. Okay, tell me about that. Parallel times then. Like that must be a lot of. A lot of responsibility. But also why.
Scott Naugle
Well, it was. I’m a lifelong insurance person.
And still actively in the business. It was my love of books and reading that made me think 25 years ago, well, it would be nice to have a bookstore.
I live in a small town, has Crescend, Mississippi. So startup costs with a simple bookstore weren’t that involved necessarily.
So I started and very small and it was essentially just me on the weekends and then it just continued to grow To. I’ll fast forward to now three locations.
Zach Ewell
Wow.
Scott Naugle
25 employees. Wow. And we added a coffee house component when we rebuilt in Pasquin after Katrina.
So now our locations include coffee house pastries, lunch, breakfast.
Zach Ewell
So, wow, you’re moving in now.
Now you’re like. Yeah, now sanitary and eating and everything like that.
Scott Naugle
But it all instances, I think there are so many people that enjoy reading.
Zach Ewell
Yeah.
Scott Naugle
And there’s a love of reading.
First of all, reading in of itself is what’s important.
Additionally, if you want a physical copy that’s Great.
And we work very hard in the bookstore when we’re selecting stock, so that if you walk in, anybody can see themselves, so that everyone feels welcome. And among those employees, rule number one is be nice. Several of them are baristas. And we bake all our own pastries. That’s another story. But it’s about creating an experience. So to get to the end of the. I think what you were asking.
It’s as much having a welcoming, comfortable place where someone can sit for a few moments, have a freshly Or a latte, not be rushed. Be served at your table in a ceramic cup and look around and be surrounded by books.
And if we’re lucky, they get up and pull a book off the shelf and say, well, I think I have to have this.
But what I’ve learned through the years is to always treat your customers not only with respect, but respect their intellect. Select books that create an opportunity for people to reach.
If we’ve always had competition. There’s a Barnes and Noble in 10 miles away. There’s a books a million 10 miles away. We don’t sell any of that stuff. When you walk in the front door of one of those stores, you see all this. We don’t have it.
We take time digging through publishers, list finding books, and people will walk in and say, oh, my gosh, you didn’t know this existed. I’m glad you have it In fact, those chain stores often recommend people to us.
Zach Ewell
Really? Oh, fascinating. Okay.
Scott Naugle
So it’s fun. The other thing about it, the similarity to insurance is it’s a people business.
Book selling. Being a barista is a contact sport. Selling insurance is a contact sport. Servicing an insurance account is a contact sport. It’s all about people.
Zach Ewell
Sure. And a lot of reading in both industries. And also, could you just clarify? So what’s the insurance aspect of it, essentially, of your. Of your history?
Scott Naugle
Oh, my. Well, I grew up in a family agency in Pennsylvania. Went to Penn State, studied to be an insurance person in actuary.
Took all the actuary courses. But then just decided that was just too much excitement. Too much, you know, actuary. I don’t know if I could live that long. Too much excitement. So I went to work with Fred S. James in Washington, D.C. Okay. Eventually was recruited to Mississippi by a bank who wanted to get into the insurance business and start buying agencies. So I’ve always been around insurance. I grew up with it. I love the industry. And as you Know, it’s a tremendous industry.
Zach Ewell
And so that led you. That’s so fascinating. I had no idea. You’re not from Louisiana. I thought you were originally from Louisiana.
Scott Naugle
When I was recruited to Mississippi. It was an example or Mississippi. The recruiter said, you know, this is in. Would you be interested in another job? I said, I don’t know, but I’ll listen. He said, this is in Mississippi.
I said, no, I want to stay in the United States. It’s a different world. But I’m originally from the Northeast.
Zach Ewell
Sure. I just thought that was so fascinating. You know, the industry essentially has led you to Mississippi, and now, because of that, you’re now also, like, a community member there as somebody who opens bookstores and has cafes. So that’s just so fascinating.
Scott Naugle
Awfully nice. But it’s. The communities have been tremendously supportive.
The people are wonderfully nice, and I’ve just been very lucky to be part of both industries.
Zach Ewell
In expanding on your relationship with both industry industries, you briefly said that you had to rebuild one of your bookstores after Katrina. Is that right? So I guess, given your background, too, you know, of risk and your background of being a, you know, a local bookstore owner after, you know, when you were rebuilding, what was that like? Because I bet, like, when it comes to, you know, we always talk about natural disasters, hurricanes, and insurance. That’s always a point of content. What, like, how did you look at, you know, rebuilding your store? Did you have, like, your actuary insurance mind as well as your local bookstore mind?
Scott Naugle
First of all, we had insurance.
Paschen was wiped off the map. Streets, roads, everything. Gone. I. I believe I’m correct in saying were the first building up.
Zach Ewell
Oh, wow.
Scott Naugle
And that at that point, we built our own building.
Zach Ewell
Yeah.
Scott Naugle
And it was because we had insurance, and we did not have to get involved in the flood versus wind issue because we had flood insurance and we had wind and property insurance. The funds were there. The issue became, well, who’s going to come? And, you know, as somebody said, build it, and they will come.
Zach Ewell
Yeah, absolutely.
Scott Naugle
My business partner, my spouse is very. He’s very aesthetic.
Zach Ewell
Yeah.
Scott Naugle
So working with architects. Beautiful building.
Here’s where my insurance part came in. This darn thing’s gonna be wind resistant.
To get to that, we had to let go the first architect because he designed a concrete structure that looked like a prison cell. So this is not gonna work. And he never did get it.
But the point is, and I’m an evangelist for this. Particularly in disaster prone areas. You have got to build hardened construction. So our buildings are concrete.
They don’t look like it because we dress them attractively.
Impact resistant windows, concrete walls so that they’re going to stand up.
So that’s what the insurance brought to me.
But on the other hand, of course, they’ve got to be very pleasing aesthetic building.
Zach Ewell
Sure. You know, people read books inside jail cells, but obviously that’s not for everybody. With COVID and in the pandemic, you know, that totally obliterated and hurt so many small businesses, so many, you know, brick and mortar, or concrete mortar in your case, businesses, you know. And then now that you know, we’re through the COVID pandemic, it’s on the other side now. Now people are returning to in person, but at the same time, there’s still this kind of worrisome that, you know, bookstores and a lot of local businesses may feel it when it comes to more and more consumers going online instead of going in person. What are your thoughts on the future essentially, of local and bookstores?
Scott Naugle
Very positive about it. I’m gonna say to you that my answer could also be an insurance answer.
Zach Ewell
Sure. Oh, please.
Scott Naugle
If you want to buy your insurance online. Yeah, Go right ahead. Would you also search and for surgery for cancer treatment online? I mean, it’s absurd.
Something as serious as insurance. Books are the same thing.
Zach Ewell
I love that.
Scott Naugle
You want to buy it online, go ahead. You want a recommendation and a discussion with a bookseller? Yeah, that’s a different thing.
Do you also want a presence in your community, a small business I mentioned earlier? I think I did. We employ. I think it’s 23, 24 employees. Those people all live in the community?
We’ve never paid minimum wage. We pay more so they can live. Sir, if that’s what you want your community to be, you’ll come and visit us and have a cup of coffee and buy a book. If you want cheap, go online. I don’t know if I can say Amazon or not. I’m not against them, but if that’s what you want. Yeah, go to Amazon. Be consistent.
You’re looking for an OBGYN, go online, get the cheapest one.
Buy everything cheap. Good luck. Buy your insurance cheap. good luck to you! But if you want expert advice, you want an insurance professional, an independent agent who knows you and is going to help you select the best coverage. Take that same conversation and apply it to books you come in and you tell me and I’m making this up. You’re interested in Roman architecture. I said okay, here’s some options. Some are in the store, some I can order. Let’s talk. I’m not in a hurry. We’ll talk 10 minutes and the next time you come in. Zach, look at this. I found something you might like.
That’s how you develop a professional relationship.
Zach Ewell
Scott Naugle, the only person I know that I could buy a book and insurance policy from and feel good. So thank you so much. Scott.
Scott Naugle
Thanks, Zach.
Zach Ewell
Thank you for listening to those two conversations of our ILF Open Mic hours. The first conversation featured Kevin Davis, president of Kevin Davis Insurance Services. Kevin’s podcast called HOA Insights can be found on all major podcasting platforms. And the second conversation featured Scott Nagle, whose bookstore can be found in Past Christian, Mississippi.
For more Leader’s Edge podcasts, please go to leadersedge.com.
